Keyleth's cultural appropriation

[quietmoon]

I need to voice my frustrating and discomfort with Marisha and Matt appropriating Maori culture for Keyleth's people.

Some twitter threads:

• However Keyleth not being Maori and having Maori tattoos and using Maori words (incorrectly I might add) isn't fine because it impacts real living people. So you see that's not just fantasy. That's cultural appropriation.
• A recap of why I'm always bringing up the issues with Keyleth with Maori tattoos because apparently a lot of people missed this when it happened.
• relatively gentle reminder to not give keyleth maori tattoos and use kaitiaki as a greeting since neither she or marisha are maori and kaitiaki isnt a greeting in the first place
• Y'all want to hear about how ironic it is that CR is misusing the word kaitiaki? Of course you don't but you're going to anyway

And I'm getting the sense that maybe later Marisha acknowledges this and apologises (although the poster of the tweets wasn't entirely happy with it I think) but didn't ask any of the fans to stop using it as well? I can't speak to future events, but just watching this through right now as a poc who knows what's happening is so uncomfortable. I love Avatar and elemental druidic magic, but every time someone uses kaitiake incorrectly and inappropriately I get taken completely out of the moment and it ruins the interactions tbh. Which (on top of being, you know, cultural appropriation) sucks because she's my favourite character. TvT

I love CR, but it's very white, and you definitely feel it while watching.

Comments

[enemytosleep]

I got into CR1 after the fact, so I missed the discussion when it was new, but I do wish they had done more work to separate fantasy culture and real world culture more. I get the appeal of giving the druidic tribes some more flavor, but they could have done more to be original. I don't want to speak for Germans or affected nations, but the cast using vollstrecker to describe the scourgers also sat poorly with me (I have noticed Matt make concerted efforts to shift the game term to scourger).

Tell me how you feel about fantasy worlds building off of various real world cultures without taking direct, specific practices verbatim? I know I try to be mindful in my games when building out the world, but I'm always learning more each day.

[quietmoon]

I remember earlier in the show Matt and Marisha talking about their recent trip to NZ and this popped up after and I sat there and wondered how there wasn't a step somewhere between that A and B that involved asking any of the indigenous folk they were just taking this from about their thoughts. Ugh.

I'm neither Maori nor German so I can't speak to that, but I do wish as you say for the show to create more of a separation between reality and fantasy cultures. What I can speak to is how lazy it can feel sometimes to see cultures, including your own, lifted wholesale - or more often, lifted in hacked-up parts with no consideration to context or origin - and thrown into a fantasy world to make something sound ~exotic~. Like, Forgotten Realm's Zakhara, Calimshan, and Kara-Tur? Uh-uh. That ain't it, chief. Try harder. *sigh* And part of this is because they're old settings, and just haven't been touched because the entirety of 5e with the exception of ToA has been set in the eurofantasy hub that is the Sword Coast -__-

You know, I really want to believe taking inspiration from the richness of human cultures IRL can be done without being kinda yikes about it. I just have yet to see it really... done... that way. And I think part of this sits with the fact that so much (so much) of fantasy is white and western - to the point of still being definitively so - and part of it sits with me not having gone out of my way enough to search out creative fantasy written by people of colour who make an effort to port stuff over. I think though, generally speaking, given that fantasy is the way it is right now, I feel iffy about stuff being taken verbatim in most cases. There's just such a culture of doing so lazily, or selfishly.

But I think there has to be a middle ground there to allow for creativity and exploration - which is something tabletop, and worldbuilding in general allows for in such a lovely way - without hurting anyone. I think asking the people who actually know it best is always the first port of call - and if the gist one gets is of excitement rather than defensiveness, maybe it's going the right way. I don't want to let my poor experiences in the past colour my openness to the idea of it, you know?

*war flashbacks to playing with white cis men who proceeded to tell me - someone who spoke arabic - that calling the marketplace in the desert town the al-bazaar market made total sense*

[enemytosleep]

Ugh, I feel you on the whiteness and cringe so, so prevalent in D&D and related fantasy industries, and I'm white. If it makes me uncomfortable, I know it's pretty fucking bad (and I'm sure I am missing smaller things that would stick out to someone more directly affected by that laziness).

For me, my home games include friends of many backgrounds, and I feel like everyone is really happy with the lore we have. I did poll them all on backstory and where they'd like to see things go. I try to create things that makes sense for the fantasy cultures of the region (like the founding day celebrations celebrating the original war, which different groups have different feelings on). If I were to publish anything I would 1000% hire sensitivity readers to help, but for private games I try to be mindful while also allowing myself room to fuck up. My friends love the games and I can't worry about the internet judging.

As for 5e content from POC creators, the two I think of are:

Sina Una, which is based on Filipino culture
Wagadu, which is based on African cultures

I have wanted to snatch them both, but then this year took a dive and I'm trying to save funds, but they are both definitely still on my list for later.

[quietmoon]

Yeah -.- But it's really heartening to see more and more diversity in fantasy. It breathes in new life. And I'm glad these types of conversations are happening more and more; I hope they make their way to the top (i.e. where the money is) soon.

That's a good point! There's without a doubt a difference between something made to please a small group of friends, and something made for wider consumption. I'd love to hear more about the lore of your campaign world if you want to talk about it any time. For tabletop, the people at the table are the primary audience - private games are to make those people happy, not to please someone else.

Thank you so much for these links! The art for both of these projects is stunning, wow. I want them so bad *v* Sina Una in particular looks like something I would love to play or run hhh

[enemytosleep]

If I don't talk about D&D during sunshine_challenge (doubtful) then I'll be sure to talk about it after. I did a lot of work on that one!

Sina Una screams to me. I will definitely be getting that book eventually. The $40 preorder is a good price too (for a campaign guide with a small publisher) so maybe later this summer I can place that order.

[quietmoon]

Wooh!

Yeah, seems sensible. I only wish shipping or customs to the UK was kinder haha.